Forum Activity for @robin-clark

Bring them both down a little at a time whilst continuously checking the measurements.

Having said that - you really don't want to know the measurements off my favourite dulcimers

If you do the action setting at the nut end first, that height will be almost imperceptibly altered 'way down at the 7th fret. In practice, I suspect most of us leave it a bit high at the nut, then adjust at the 7th, and go back again as needed.

Fret wire comes in different sizes, so the height of the frets above the fret board can vary. The height of the nut or bridge saddle above the fret board are unimportant, it's the height of the strings above the frets that affect playability. The variable of fret wire alone makes a standard measurement difficult to establish. What is the height of the fret wire used on your dulcimer? And how much was removed in leveling, crowning, and polishing the frets after installation? The person doing the set up takes measurements of each instrument they work on, and adjusts the nut and bridge height for each instrument. Most builders leave nut and saddle height a bit high until the instrument is sold, and adjust to each players preferences.

Paul

As Bobby sez, height of the strings above the fretboard as a measure, has too many variables generally. We normally do not measure the height of the nut or the bridge above the surface of the fretboard. However, the 'traditional recommended starting point' for good action height is a dime sitting on the fretboard at the first fret. A dime is 1.55mm,so 1.5 to 1.6mm is a good start. At the same time the strings should be the thickness of a nickel above the 7th fret. A US nickel is 1.95mm so 2.0mm above the 7th fret is the place to start.

I also agree with Marc and recommend MusEdit. I use it for all my SMN and dulcimer tab. Its learning curve probably isn't any different than other software. You can use MusEdit for basic SMN or tab, or you can use the software to its fullest extent and really make it look extremely professional. I learn something new with the software each time I use it. I've really gotten into writing my own tab from existing songs (I play chord/melody style) and am having alot of fun doing it, thanks to this software. I've always gotten good feedback when contacting Doug. I haven't had to contact him for awhile, though. I think my work looks pretty sharp thanks to this software (it actually looks better than some tab that I get at dulcimer festivals ). Oh, you can also change the tab options for writing tab for different fret configurations....for example, if you have a 1+ fret.

What I called HD tab is really just the note names below the SMN just like MD tab. It makes it much easier for me. Tabledit has afeaturethat allows you to change between the tab numbers and the note name with just the press of a key [actually 2 keys, shift and 4, the $]. I also use the reverse tab function so any 'stacked' notes, like chords, read the same vertically as the SMN, bass notes at the bottom.

I'd second Marc's recommendation of MusEdit. Excellent programme for MD, freeware now, and runs well on all versions of Windows (and Linux and OS X if you install it in Wine.) Doug Rogers is travelling in Asia now and is really hard to contact for support, but there is a user group on Yahoo which has provided me with some help in the past: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/musedit/

I would not know anything about tabs for the HD, I've never seen one.

I used Musedit for a long time for MD tab. It's a good program and he did make it free but the programmer isn't working on it any more. I switched to Tabledit and found it good for the MD and it has a couple of features that lend itself to setting up MD tab for the HD if you don't read SMN very well. The programmer is very responsive to his customers also and he has a web page for customers to post comments etc. You may want to check them both out to see which youprefer. I feel they are both about the same as far as learning curve.

Since this thread has been resurrected, I will chime back in and mention that I now have my Starsong also. It is absolutely wonderful. It looks fantastic, but more importantly it sounds absolutely lovely. It's easily the most responsive dulcimer I've ever owned. I am extremely pleased with it. I'll also echo Ilene's comments above - Gary is a great guy and a fantastic musician. For anyone who decides to get on the build list - you won't regret it. It may take a while, but you will be thrilled.

One more thing to mention - after playing many dulcimers with different VSLs over the years, I've come to realize I'm most comfortable playing instruments with VSLs from 26 in. to 26 1/2 in. I asked Gary to build mine with a 26 1/4 in VSL (instead of his usual 27 in VSL), and he's now got that length templated. So for anyone out there who may want a Starsong but was thinking they wanted the smaller VSL of Gary's A-frame model (VSL= 26 in), you now have another choice. :)

Thanks for your response, van. Your instrument sounds beautiful. Enjoy it!

Hello Van. Congrats on your Starsong. I'd love to see/hear it if you'd like to post some photos/videos. If you don't mind me asking, what woods did you go with?

I am next up on Gary's build list (I was two people behind you on his list.) For anyone who's thinking of ordering, do it sooner rather than later - there were 15 people behind me on the list as of April 15, 2013, and I'm sure that number has grown significantly. I've only had a chance to play a couple Starsongs, but they were both gorgeous instruments to play, to listen to, and to look at. I am eagerly awaiting my own. :)

Linda I. Vickers said:

Vivian, The Gallier dulcimers are designed primarily for playing fingerpicking style (Gary fingerpicks). Last May I decided to order an A-Frame which is the smaller version (26 VSL vs. 27 VSL for the Starsong) of Gary's dulcimer. Gary designed it(you can read the specifics on his website) and taught his brother, Les, to make it. At that time, he quoted me this price for the dulcimer. The A Frame is $625 which includes shipping and handling, hardwood fretboard overlay, position markers, edge binding on the top perimeter, and strap buttons. There is an optional gig bag case that is $40.There are two tuneson youtube and can be accessed under the A-Frame information that areplayed by Josh Noe (The Trip Home and Indigo Out). My only experience is playing the A-Frame fingerpicking style and with its thinner wood and other Gallier design characteristics (see the website), it has an exceptionally pretty sound. The wait isn't as long for Les to complete a dulcimer but he is a full-time musician so there is a waiting period depending on what might be going on. He had a few delays with my dulcimer; I received the dulcimer at the end of September. Would I buy it again? Yes I would! If anyone has any other questions on the A-Frame they would like an opinion on - I'll glady share mine. Hope ya'll are having a great new year. Linda

Hi Linda...Thanks for the reply! I did write to Gary and he did send me the links you spoke of, and told me about his brother making the smaller A-frame, so it is very good to hear from you about that instrument. I am glad to hear that you were really pleased with it. I was concerned, because it did seem to be a bit smaller, and I want to make sure I get something that has a true dulcimer sound...I really am a bit nervous about ordering something off the internet, and not being able to hear it in person, but You Tube really helps with that sometimes! I think I have decided to go with Nic Hambas for now...I have heard good things about his instruments, but I do intend to get on a list for the Gallier, I really want one, especially since I want to explore different styles of playing! I think I am going to be a victim of DAD, like so many others that I have met on this site...! Sounds like a nice disease to catch, anyway! Maybe by the time he is able to build me one I will be much more informed of my own style and so can get more specific on the details...

Thanks again for your input, Vivian

Vivian, The Gallier dulcimers are designed primarily for playing fingerpicking style (Gary fingerpicks). Last May I decided to order an A-Frame which is the smaller version (26 VSL vs. 27 VSL for the Starsong) of Gary's dulcimer. Gary designed it(you can read the specifics on his website) and taught his brother, Les, to make it. At that time, he quoted me this price for the dulcimer. The A Frame is $625 which includes shipping and handling, hardwood fretboard overlay, position markers, edge binding on the top perimeter, and strap buttons. There is an optional gig bag case that is $40.There are two tuneson youtube and can be accessed under the A-Frame information that areplayed by Josh Noe (The Trip Home and Indigo Out). My only experience is playing the A-Frame fingerpicking style and with its thinner wood and other Gallier design characteristics (see the website), it has an exceptionally pretty sound. The wait isn't as long for Les to complete a dulcimer but he is a full-time musician so there is a waiting period depending on what might be going on. He had a few delays with my dulcimer; I received the dulcimer at the end of September. Would I buy it again? Yes I would! If anyone has any other questions on the A-Frame they would like an opinion on - I'll glady share mine. Hope ya'll are having a great new year. Linda

Thanks Vivian. I think we truly do have the same approach. Since I tend towards more contemporary instruments and love a deeper 'voice', I ended up ordering a dulcimer from Tom Yocky. His design and technology and workmanship are very, very good plus he's a great person to deal with. The sound is deep and lovely and I practice something on it every day. LadyHawk is her name :) and he carved an elegant hawk in flight on it for me. It is quite lovely and his design intrigued me. I didn't have the sense to stop there so I wrote to Janita Baker at Blue Lion Instruments. I had heard their workmanship was outstanding. I ended up ordering the IIR rosewood flatpeg hourglass dulcimer and had a smaller mother of pearl matching rose put on the peghead. It has a smaller scale length than my Yocky. It is incredibly beautiful with workmanship everyone is familiar with and has a higher 'voice' than the Yocky. They are both lovely and play well but in different ways. The Yocky is strength and deep toned whereas the Blue Lion is a smaller, more elegant instrument. I'm very pleased with my choices and my plan is to learn more about the fine points and music theory before venturing into another dulcimer. With so much to learn, I can't justify another expensive dulcimer at this point but I'm sure the day will come. If you want a delicate, higher voice (but no twang sound) and are interested in something at the price the custom models go for then I can say a Blue Lion is a work of art and is a very high quality instrument. I'm finding I'm tending towards the larger sound boxes that give me a deep tone but who knows what will come. I've also found that I prefer fingerpicking over strumming or using a noter and the music I'm trying to learn is also more contemporary but then that is just my style. I wish you well with your selection and just know you'll have a great time with whatever you buy.

Vivian Hays said:

Thanks so much for all your input! It all sounds very reasonable and true, and just the kind of guidance I need right now. I feel exactly the way Barbara Maas explained it, (thanks Barbara), lots of enthusiasm, bouncing all over the place, but with lots of questions attached! I do want to make a good informed decision, and not go nuts, but still get what I need to feel successful and happy in the end with my choice....I had actually written to Gary Gallier about his instruments and knew he had quite a waiting list going, (about 18 months) but I figured I would get on it if he was willing...I do intend to buy a less expensive (but still gorgeous!) instrument at this time, but was just really impressed with his dulcimer.

I also know that I can pass on any instrument I purchase now to one of my nieces and they would be thrilled! For now, I think I am leaning towards Nic Hambas. I spoke with him yesterday, and he is very helpful and informative. I also love the Blue Lion, but they are very spendy as well!

I wish I could actually see, touch, hear, before I choose, but that is just not possible. I really am glad I found this site, it has been very helpful and enjoyable to get such wonderful, friendly and well informed advice. Thanks! Vivian

Thanks so much for all your input! It all sounds very reasonable and true, and just the kind of guidance I need right now. I feel exactly the way Barbara Maas explained it, (thanks Barbara), lots of enthusiasm, bouncing all over the place, but with lots of questions attached! I do want to make a good informed decision, and not go nuts, but still get what I need to feel successful and happy in the end with my choice....I had actually written to Gary Gallier about his instruments and knew he had quite a waiting list going, (about 18 months) but I figured I would get on it if he was willing...I do intend to buy a less expensive (but still gorgeous!) instrument at this time, but was just really impressed with his dulcimer.

I also know that I can pass on any instrument I purchase now to one of my nieces and they would be thrilled! For now, I think I am leaning towards Nic Hambas. I spoke with him yesterday, and he is very helpful and informative. I also love the Blue Lion, but they are very spendy as well!

I wish I could actually see, touch, hear, before I choose, but that is just not possible. I really am glad I found this site, it has been very helpful and enjoyable to get such wonderful, friendly and well informed advice. Thanks! Vivian

Ken,

As usual, you are the voice of reason. I think when we start out in the dulcimer world, we want the sound that is the best even though we don't actually know how to classify the 'best' because we don't have the experience listening and playing that you do. I don't know about others, but I really struggled with the question ... is cost equal to value? does it make sense for me to invest $1000 at this point? I know my enthusiasm was unbounded and I went overboard with books, equipment and even ended up with two dulcimers. I didn't want a poor sounding, beginner's dulcimer that I wouldn't enjoy hearing and playing but I'm far from equal to needing a Gallier at this stage. It's so hard to gear back to what you really need rather than what all is 'out there'. I heard the Gallier played on YouTube and the softness and depth of sound were simply beautiful. The instrument is equally as beautiful. Thanks for the reminder that we can be truly pleased and enjoy a lesser costly instrument although his would certainly be something to dream of having one day. Your advice in so many areas is welcome and I always look for your comments. Thanks for all the information you share.

Regards,

Barbara

Gary, like Dwain Wilder of Bear Mountain, has a VERY long waiting list, if the list is even open. Beautiful and beautiful sounding. Worth the money? Worth the wait? Both those builders are making Master class concert grade instruments; and if you're just starting out I can think of a dozen builders who's $300-$500 class instruments are more than enough for 99% of the players out there...

Hi Vivian,

I don't know whether the situation has changed at all, but I had spoken with Gary back in early July and at that time he told me that he was having to turn away orders and that if took a new order the wait would be at least 18 months due to people already on a waiting list.

Gary's dulcimers do look and sound fantastic. The hourglass Starsong was $1,400 back in July.

Kind regards,

Brian

Hi, I have been looking at many different builders and have had many helpful replies from members on this site (Thanks!) I recently came across Gary Gallier's site and was so impressed by the beauty and very different design of his instruments. I believe the hourglass is called the Starsong. Does anyone have any input on them? I couldn't find any pricing on his site at all, so have no idea of the prices, but love the looks and sound (You Tube). I would appreciate any input! As a complete beginner I want all the input I can get on the instruments and builders before choosing one. Thanks! Vivian

Bryan - See my comments in your other discussion, as well.

Bryan, see my reply in your other noter-holding problem discussion.

Head over to Strumelia's other site dedicated to traditional playing (link on the Main Page)--in addition to all of the great info found throughout, there are additional links about playing techniques ("Useful Traditional Dulcimer Links"). Read Ken Hulmes "Get Noter-ized" article--several pages of helpful (to say the least) info regarding different ways to hold the noter, different materials, etc.

Glad to hear the bigger diameter is working better for you.

I often make noters of exotic hardwoods by using "Pen Blanks" (for turning fancy ink pens) from Ebay and other sources I've found. The blanks are the perfect size to round into tubular noters or saw in half lengthwise to make flat noters.

Bryan,

For comfort, I prefer a flat noter to a round one and use a thumb-on-top hold. And I have to watch myself that I don't have a "death grip" on my noter.

Bryan, not sure if you've already looked at my noter blog, but here are a few suggestions:

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2009/12/beginner-tips-on-using-noter.html

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2009/02/road-to-corn-dogs.html

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2009/02/corn-dog.html

I recommend that N&D players use a noter that is about the same dimensions as their index finger, or a bit larger. Say 1/2" or 5/8" diameter and 4-5" long. Yes, that large of diameter will work fine 'way up the fretboard where the spaces are narrower. Another thing is to try Lisa's Noter Dog - wrap the noter for most of its length in foam rubber, like a hot dog inna bun.

Dowel rod is, IMHO, marginally hard enough to work well as a noter. Something harder like Maple or Elm, or some of the exotic woods will last a lot longer. I particularly like Ebony and Snakewood. As JH says, bamboo works well as the silicon in the fibers is very tough.

If it's your index finger with the arthritis, you may want to try the Thumb on Top style grip or Randy Adam's Palm Down grip which will put less pressure on the affected digit.

Here's the link to my Noter Article:

http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/profiles/blog/list?q=get+noterized

Hello Brian, having been a chippie for most of my life I have knocked those L.H. fingers enough times for them to be aquainted with our friend 'Arthur........! You could try anything that has a larger dia grip, (Ken Hulme offers great info in his 'Get Noterised'), Experiment ! I often make use of the plastic barrels of discarded ballpoint (or similar) pens, which vary considerably in dia, and also in resultant tone, believe it or not!, The plain old bamboo (?river cane?) garden stakes that most of us have hanging around can usually be relied upon when cut into suitable lenghts to give a selection of noters in differing dia, and you can of course wrap most things you may want to use in something to increase it's dia. (electricians tape ect). Randy Adams gives good advice on using thumb and forefinger in a' parallel' grip on a noter which I found helpful ? (just don't aim to use a noter as he does in five minutes !!! lol)

JohnH

AS far as I know Hughes is up and running...

Any updates on the re-opening? I have two Hughes Dulcimers and would like to get some additional information about them if possible.

That's great news! I hope the quality will remain. Surely it will...

As many of you know HughesDulcimer Co out of Denver, was owned by the legendary Hughes brothers Virgil and Norman, who made dulcimers and dulcimer kits for many many years. Original Hughes instruments and kit instruments are fairly common on Ebay and can often be had for very little money. Not particularly pretty by modern standards, perhaps, but the fretboards were very accurate and the instruments were emminently playable.

I just read on ED that Hughes Dulcimer company is being re-vitalized by a new person, with the assistance of Norman Hughes. Let's hear it for the return of a classic!

That is so pretty! I can't wait to hear yours.

They're pretty cool at FOTMG, but we're MUCH cooler at FOTMD!

Macy Jayne said:

Wow, I just joined FOTMG yesterday and I'm truly amazed and see that is a very special group of people!

Wow, I just joined FOTMG yesterday and I'm truly amazed and see that is a very special group of people!

Val and Brian- wonderful sentiments and thoughts- they really hit home and are so true.

John Henry, I plan to get in a little epinette practice this afternoon- after I work on some machinery valve drawings for a few hours (um, gotta make a living too!). It's an exciting new challenge for me, since I think I need to develop a new method of 'attack' more in keeping with its epinette-ish charms.

What a fantastic gift and thank you from John Henry. I realized right away that this was a very special community of people as soon as I joined, and this gift to you is, in one sense, a gift to all of us. Thank you, Stumelia, for making such a great place available to us, and thank you, John, for this wonderful example of generosity and kindness.

Best wishes to all for a wonderful new year.

Kind regards,

Brian

Thanks folks, this site (and the people on it) has provided me with a lot of pleasure these last two years, impossible to 'shake everyone's hand' so to speak, so something made from reclaimed timber to the originator of FOTMD hopefully fits the bill, particularly if she shares it with us all, lol !

John

That's a nice christmas gift. Enjoy your new Epinette!

Lovely! What a fun surprise :)

Best wishes,

Mary Z Cox

www.maryzcox.com